Fall of the Berlin Wall: "It was a symbol but it all started long before", says Hubert Védrine
Élizabeth Martichoux received this Friday morning on LCI, in her political interview, Hubert Védrine. Spokesperson for the Presidency of the Republic from 1988 to 1991 under François Mitterrand, Minister for Foreign Affairs in the Jospin government from 1997 to 2002, then author of a report on NATO for François Hollande in 2013, he appears as the 'one of the best placed to comment on the impact of the fall of the Berlin Wall, which we will celebrate 30 years on Saturday, or the recent criticisms made by Emmanuel Macron against NATO. Review of his answers.
"We were so in the process of weakening the USSR, it was not a German movement. We have been talking about it since 1981. But for the Berliners, it was an extraordinary acceleration, even Chancellor Helmut Kohl did not believe not yet in a reunification. We were in a visual era, so of emotion. People believe that the wall was knocked down while not at all, it was opened. It was a symbol but everything had started long before. The Poles, the Hungarians, had opened the iron curtain several years before. We must not neglect the emotion, which is legitimate, but we must also put things in their place. The Soviet regime was already dead -living in 1989. And he survived another two years later. "
"I believe that, at the time, they were not intelligent with Russia, by starting to consider it as a sub-country, a negligible power. This is why today, Putin adopts a posture of distrust, and extends its territory in Crimea or Ukraine. Russia has become nationalist again and that's where it comes from.
"This is an old debate between Germans, from the start, far beyond Melenchonism. A radical left-wing minority movement, die Linke, considers it to be an annexation, out of nostalgia for East German communism The Germans have the right to talk about it among themselves, but let's not get into it with our big hooves. Let us be moderate and responsible. All the countries of Europe have problems of lag. Look at Brexit… "
"It is not capitalism, it is the West which imposes its power everywhere, behind American imperialism and great European naivety. Europeans believe themselves in the world of Care Bears when it is rather Jurassic Park. Today, we see that the story was not finished in 1989. Dozens of emerging countries, China at the head, but also all the formerly colonized countries, have entered the world rat race. long lived in an illusion without taking it into account. Besides, they still believe that an international community exists (smile). "
"He is right. But we must bear in mind that Europe was built under the protection of the United States in the face of the threat of Stalin. There is no power to speak of in the DNA of Europe, just universalist values, which often do not correspond to reality. I find President Macron courageous on this, as on NATO, by his initiatives, his positions. Germany criticizes him "It is normal, it remains paralyzed by its past and has no interest in losing its power in a reform. It remains at the center of everything in Europe. And Angela Merkel's policy remains a policy of immobility There is in fact doubt about the guarantee of American protection for decades. The United States has not wanted NATO for a long time, and the Europeans want to stay there for lack of something better. United States, what Angela Merkel herself understood from her first re meeting with Donald Trump… Emmanuel Macron’s speech of truth can create an unblocking, convince Europeans to form an autonomous defense pole, even if it means doing without Germany at the start of the process. If not, what is the other option? Apathy, renunciation, nothing. "